We promised The Hunger Games weeks ago, but failed.  We do that a lot.  It is our intention to do it by this weekend, though, so stay tuned!

If you want to join us for future spirited reviews (we spoil a lot so perhaps it's best to either read books or watch movies first or decide for sure that you won't be reading/seeing them) when we will review 'Alchemy of Stone' by Ekaterina Sedia and 'How To Save A Life' by Sara Zarr.  The former is waiting for me to read so it could be a few weeks.  The latter is waiting for Scott to read so could happen in a few days...

We have decided we will eventually see the newest 'Girl With The Dragon Tattoo', so surely commentary will come.

Millennium: The Movies [Subtitled]

Scottie B says

Brrrrrrr

Snowee l says

I know.  I don't want to shower because it means removing my jacket.

I think it's time to discuss the Millennium movies

Scottie B says

ok

Where do you want to star?

or start?

first movie?

Snowee l says

This is where we say SPOILERS so don't read if you care.  This is also the part where I specify that we are talking about the three Swedish films that make up the Millennium series called (in US) The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, The Girl Who Played With Fire, and The Girl Who Kicked A Hornet's Nest, respectively.

I think we may end up jumping around a bit, but let's start with this.  The movies were much better than the books.  They took a lot of the extemporaneous information and threw it out of the window, plus they took a lot of the contrived plot points and revamped them to give better motivations.  Overall, worth your time, unlike the books

Scottie B says

I totally agree, I am also one who isn't overly fond of subtitles, but for some reason it worked for these films.

Back to the movies. It is correct most of the contrived plot points have been removed from the films.

Snowee l says

One of the best ones is that instead of Blomqvist's daughter appearing out of nowhere - only to disappear completely even from underlying subtext - in order to tell him that the clues were scriptural, they had Salander hacking his computer to find them and have that be the catalyst to bring them together.

 Now, I didn't have a particular problem with the way they came together in the book, but having them come together over that clue was definitely more interesting.

Scottie B says

More interested and bridged the gap of why Salander would even show up in the first place. It also provided a more realistic approach to start their relationship. Lizbeth was able to prove what she could do and Blomquist was able to professionally appreciate her talents. Even if he didn't agree to her methods.

It set the stage for the relationship to be more normal other than the way it was presented in the books.

Snowee l says

Definitely.  They left out almost every word of the Wennestrom affair and didn't try to explain the business aspect any more than an intelligent person would already know.

Scottie B says

Agreed. It was a starting point to briefly explain why he would go on a sabbatical and accept a research job away from people. They also moved his stay in prison to the end of the movie instead of in the middle of the story. Which made more sense in the grander scheme of the stories.

That made the movie move a long more smoothly without abruptly interrupting the story and have a short prison stay. Just another way the movie makers were able to gloss over the whole trial part without giving it too much attention as in the books.

Snowee l says

Imprisonment for journalists in Sweden is quite pleasant, yes?

Scottie B says

Yes, I want a prison stay at club med'

Ooh and they don't go into all of the detail about the lost girl in the movie. Blomquist finds her, goes to her, and then brings her home. There isn't the huge network of hackers that have to help locate her, her history on why she doesn't want to go back, and her over protective son at the sheep farms. Just got to the point and moved on.

Snowee l says

Which allowed them to make the story about why she ran away instead of about the fact that she had gone missing.  It was a different focus, but I didn't mind taking time on the whole "finding" thing in the book... although the part about him tracking down and finding clues in the photos was tedious in the book and in the movie, they portrayed it more effectively.

Scottie B says

The flow of the movies were better overall. It stayed true to the general feeling of the books, but allowed to move some of the story around to make more sense or removed things that didn't make sense. Unfortunately they failed in the second movie. Like the book the showed Lizbeth traveling and acting out of character. I wish that the script writers could have come up with a way to correct

that issue for me also. Alas they didn't.

Snowee l says

No, they didn't.  It was slightly better.  I don't recall them suddenly having her care so much about her appearance, but her behaviour still felt untrue.  Maybe they were going for "erratic" but a person's core belief doesn't change and that will always affect their overall decision-making.

Scottie B says

Its true, a person behaves in a way that stays true to their base personality.

The biggest thing that I liked about the movie was they took out Blomquists partner at the magazine's leaving and going to another paper. They also took out where she was being stalked by an old highschool person that had a grudge towards her.

Instead the stalker was the society of cover-up people that we trying to kill the story. It made more sense this way. Instead of a complete side story that didn't have an effect on the overall story arcs what so ever.

Snowee l says

I won't say it made more sense that way, but it added to the suspense of the storyline and made it necessary.  As a side story with no connection whatsoever, I feel it is a waste of time to put into a story, but woven in as they did in the movies, it became important.  Thank heavens someone in the process of the conversion understood that!

Scottie B says

Welcome back

Snowee l says

I won't say it made more sense that way, but it added to the suspense of the storyline and made it necessary.  As a side story with no connection whatsoever, I feel it is a waste of time to put into a story, but woven in as they did in the movies, it became important.  Thank heavens someone in the process of the conversion understood that!

Scottie B says

It made more sense in the continuity of the film to remove the change of jobs and focus on the actual overall story arc which was the bad guys and the guys that are tying to cover for the bad guys.

Snowee l says

Yes, exactly.  A story can have subplots, but his subplots were a little too "important"

Scottie B says

The last main thing that I think the movie did well was they removed a lot of the information about Lizbeths sister. Who was mention several times in the book, but it didn't add to the story at all. The lack of focus on this mythical sister was a good move.

Snowee l says

Oh, right.  Another good point.  See?  They deftly removed everything that didn't need to be there.

Scottie B says

This is why I would suggest the films over reading the book. I cringe to see what our American film makers decide to do with the films. It could go either way. Mostly because the average American fan seems to respect the movie more - the more that it stays true to the book. Every agonizing detail.

On the plus side if you really enjoyed the character of Lizbeth the actress that played the part did exceptionally well. It was as if the character from the book stepped out of it and entered the film itself. Great acting and directing on that respect.

Snowee l says

I felt she was very true to the part.  Small frame, dainty features, but decorates herself in a way that most people would miss the attractiveness.  That's how I felt she was in the books.  Actually, the part in the movies was a little different, but in a good way.  She brought life to a character who was a little flat and one dimensional.

The scenes at the end of the second movie were far more intense than in the book because she actually made me care and her expressions were more vivid than had been described.

I know it's a lame hang-up, but I still have issue with her being buried alive.  In the book it describes an air pocket created by her hand that made it almost plausible.  In the movie, her arms were in the wrong place for that and the time seemed to leave her under dirt longer.  She's not a superhero or alien creature who doesn't require air!

Scottie B says

I have the same issue with her being buried alive also. And yes the movie made it seem less plausible that she would have been able to dig herself out.

eyes

Snowee l says

Third movie has the now-iconic mohawk.  I dig that.

Scottie B says

Me too

The main issue that I had with the third movie was some of it was too closely related to the book.

The court room scenes and how they win the whole trial was just as terribly portrayed in the movies as it was in the books. Too contrived and convenient so that are superhero wins in the end even though she was guilty of some of the crimes that she committed.

But I did like that they spent less time on her half brother in the movies than they did in the books. He was there just enough and didn't get entire chapters dedicated to him. Again they stuck with the parts with the tall blond guy that mattered the most.

Snowee l says

They remembered that if it does not move the story along, it does not belong.  I agree about the trial.  Courtroom scenes bore me, though, and at least those were at least a bit less tedious than they often are in movies.

Yet there is no accountability for the part where she was guilty.

Was there much to the third movie other than her recovery and the trial?

Anything about her recovery worth mentioning?  They got through it much more quickly and efficiently.

Scottie B says

No not much on the third. I still think that book 2 and 3 could have been one book and if they had a removed enough of the crap they could have made movie 2 and 3 into one movie also and got the point across just as well.

Snowee l says

Agreed.

Scottie B says

Hour one - she is framed, hunts her dad, then almost dies. Hour two - she recovers, found innocent, and lives happily ever after with her stolen money, her family all dead, and well the end.

Snowee l says

Perfect.  Done.  Finis.

Next up, The Hunger Games.  I am going to finish it tomorrow, I swear!

But only book one because I have no desire to read 2 and 3.  Perhaps that will change when I've reached the very last page, but let's cross that bridge when we come to it

Scottie B says

Yay, that will be fun since you are reading Hunger Games now and it has been a few months since I have.

Let us see how much I have forgotten.

Coming Soon

1. Reviews of the Millennium series of films (Swedish version).  We have not decided if we will see the American version yet.

2. The Hunger Games (book 1 of the series)

Stay tuned!

The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo

Snowee says

Should we discuss one book at a time?

Scottie B says

hello

Snowee says

or the series?

Scottie B says

one book at a time

Snowee says

Avoid spoilers or assume people have either read it or don't care?

Scottie B says

Disclaimer, if you don't want it spoiled don't read

something like that

Snowee says

Okay. I'm thinking we should begin with the facts that cannot be argued...

such as the way he guides us up and down streets constantly to tell us she shops at 7 eleven

Scottie B says

agreed

Snowee says

The first book opens with the Wennerstrom affair, right? He spent over 70 pages setting up this story that is a minor plot point.

that's just too long to spend introducing characters.

Scottie B says

basically how he became a prolific journalist by being in the right place at the right time and then introducing the Wennerstrom affair and his pitfalls

Snowee says

Seemed too long and unnecessary. Essentially he's a journalist who has uncovered a corrupt business man. Detailing the corruption seemed redundant if you have *ever* seen a news article about any businessman these days

Scottie B says

That sums it up. Too much detail and back ground on some characters that aren't even essential to the overall story - simply banal rambling to fill pages of the story

Snowee says

Then we move to Hedestad island where he can conveniently get away from scrutiny over the Wennerstrom mess by taking up assignment with some wealthy guy. That was where I started to notice that he would jump all over the place a little bit. He would go along detailing something, then jump back a bit, then go forward. It wasn't obvious, but it happened.

Scottie B says

Yes, he resigns from the magazine for his year, but not really, just a show that he isn't part of the magazine so it doesn't go completely under. That is also where we begin to see minor plot points arise that are completely contrived just so the story can move along. Doesn't always make sense with the current thoughts in the chapter, and undermines any chance of consistency throughout the book.

I mean that we spent 70+ pages to introduce something that didn't affect the main story and then we get several more chapters to setup what the story is really going to be about. With a lot of redundancy.

Snowee says

I didn't really notice it at that point, but it became glaringly obvious as the novels wore on that he believes in a fictional world made up completely of convenience.

You know, I'm still really bothered by the point within the whole introduction to Harriet's disappearance where he covers every minute detail of the day, her disappearance, why she clearly must be dead, and then poses the question ‘could she just have gone into hiding?’ and dismisses it with one sentence. It told me right there that's exactly what happened.

Scottie B says

It did, Which just shows that a weak argument can be made, just to add an air of mystery to the disappearance. I would actually state for me that first contrived point is how well Lisbeth put together the bio on Blomkvist so that he would be hired for the job. It was the first step that would prove that she is ultimately infallible in any way shape or form later on.

Snowee says

Yes. Lisbeth. Perfectly imperfect.

Scottie B says

It sets the precedence that carries the theme of her character throughout the story. Unfortunately this is where I have to admit that I saw the Swedish movie before I read the book and after feeling that I watched a movie with a good story just jaded me for the entire first book. Even during the beginning

Snowee says

Point made. I knew nothing going in except that it is "dark" - a point which really doesn't bother me. A point that is actually appealing to me as I tend to seek out the disturbed stuff. I saw the movie after the book and instead felt like it cleaned up the issues I had.

Scottie B says

While creating most of the issues that I had.

Snowee says

Understandable. Okay, so now he navigates us through the investigation. It was okay - even enjoyable at times - but it does drag on and on because there aren't any major compelling breakthroughs until...

Scottie B says

Yep - you know how - often in real life - you get stuck on a project and can't make any headway and then all of the sudden your estranged daughter shows up out of nowhere (which by this time I forgot that he was even previously married and had a daughter because it was briefly mentioned in the long unnecessary introduction) and solved the clue just to disappear entirely after two sentences?

Snowee says

Ha ha. I knew you'd want to make that point. I agree completely. Prime example of his world of convenience. Now, am I jumping too fast to point out here that right after that, he finds Harriet all tucked away, they solve the crime, get rid of the offending people, and then he bookends the thing with another 70 pages of wrap up that should have taken 15 pages at most?

Scottie B says

That nails it. They do some more foot work and solve the photo issue, get the girl in the end (no amazing sunset) because we have to move on to the boring wrap up - which isn't really a wrap of the main story arc, but a wrap up of the almost completely insane opening of the book.

Snowee says

Oh, right. I kind of liked the photo part, but again he spent pages upon pages. In the movie it was definitely truncated and I felt it improved that portion of the detective work. Yes, the main story was completely over, but he had to get retribution for the whole Wennerstrom affair.

I wouldn't have missed it if it wasn't there because I didn't care by that point.

Oh, and let us not forget the names. How many names can we have that sound similar so as to throw you off whilst reading? In this book, it was just annoying. Later it became almost angering.

Scottie B says

True, the Wennerstrom affair was just the writer’s way of providing redemption to a scorned character.

Berger, Burger, Fries and a shake names are the same

Snowee says

Who wouldn't have been scorned if he could have described Blomkvist better than wasting my time with an entirely separate story. Better writers manage to show that their characters are smart and compassionate and wrongly accused without spending so much time giving me a business class lesson.

Scottie B says

I know that if I wanted a business lesson I would go to school for that (wink)

Snowee says

{smirk} Well, and I had an interest in that subject, so maybe we just know more than the average person? I find that hard to believe.

Scottie B says

Although I think that we can both agree that if we were to rate the overall book on a scale of 5 stars that we would give it a 3 of them?

Don't know, on knowing more than the average person, anyone reading this book has a right to be bored with the opening.

Snowee says

Yes. I would almost tip toward 4 except I really have read a lot of books that are better written. The story might go as high as 4 because it does have its high points. The writing is a 2 even giving kudos to the translator.

Scottie B says

True - overall I did enjoy the main story despite the writing and don't regret reading it. It is always nice to go outside my comfort realm of fantasy and explore something new.

Good character development with Lisbeth and Blomkvist too. At least I think so.

Snowee says

And I know I'm a tough customer when it comes to openings. Even my favorite books get a hesitant 5 stars if the opening isn't awesome. Those authors I go on and on about, I do so because their openings got me right away.

Lisbeth and Blomkvist were both well developed in the first one. It was later I felt they fell apart, but we'll get to that later.

Scottie B says

Yes we will.

Honestly, if you hadn't read the book and then watched the movie and stated all of the obvious problems that the movie cleaned up I may not have read past page 50

Snowee says

I wouldn't have blamed you a bit. Believe me, I know it can be incredibly difficult to make a reader care right away without using cheap tricks, but Stieg Larsson took well beyond 50 pages to make me care and I really think a good author can manage it by 50 pages. It's a good thing I have such a hard time putting down a book once I've started it or I would never have known about the few good things that came from reading these novels.

Scottie B says

That has happened to me on several occasions where I finished a book just because I started it. It has been a more recent phenomenon that I will stop reading a book if it isn't interesting. I can't always say that because I stuck through the entire first Twilight book...but that is for another blog altogether.

Snowee says

Ooh, maybe I should read that just so that we can bitchblog together.

Scottie B says

I don't know if I want you to trespass on that forbidden road.

Snowee says

Meanwhile, I think that might be all I had to say on The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo. Do you have any more to add?

Scottie B says

Nope all good

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